0:00:00.000,0:00:01.460
We're only here

0:00:01.540,0:00:03.920
to talk about

0:00:04.040,0:00:06.520
Mickiewicz being a great poet,

0:00:06.800,0:00:09.880
Słowacki, and other individuals,

0:00:10.140,0:00:13.560
but it's a bit difficult to break through the

0:00:13.560,0:00:14.940
image of Polish studies

0:00:15.040,0:00:16.920
that has been perpetuated in recent years.

0:00:22.160,0:00:24.800
We invite you to listen to episodes of the new

0:00:24.800,0:00:28.480
podcast series "Spotkania Biuletynu" ( Bulletin Meetings

0:00:28.480,0:00:29.460
) titled "Engaged Polish Studies.

0:00:31.240,0:00:34.080
" Polish studies aren't a helpless observation

0:00:34.080,0:00:34.580
of the world.

0:00:35.060,0:00:36.620
They provide tools

0:00:36.620,0:00:37.900
to navigate it,

0:00:37.900,0:00:39.680
help understand it, and

0:00:39.840,0:00:43.180
prevent exclusion and loneliness.

0:00:44.820,0:00:46.860
This is the Polish studies

0:00:46.860,0:00:49.040
we want to showcase through our

0:00:50.900,0:00:52.660
"Engaged Polish Studies" project.

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Good morning,

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we're meeting again as part of the

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"Polish Studies and the Challenges of the Contemporary World" project,

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carried out under the auspices of the Institute of Literary Research

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of the Polish Academy of Sciences.

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Our guest today is Mr. Marcin Miłko. Marcin is a

0:01:22.850,0:01:26.050
primary school Polish teacher

0:01:26.050,0:01:27.170
and

0:01:27.230,0:01:29.430
also a careers advisor,

0:01:29.450,0:01:30.390
live coach,

0:01:30.410,0:01:31.290
and education coach.

0:01:31.790,0:01:34.010
Marcin also works at a university,

0:01:34.070,0:01:35.530
where he focuses on, among other things,

0:01:35.730,0:01:37.290
Polish studies teaching,

0:01:37.290,0:01:40.410
literature for children and young adults, and

0:01:40.410,0:01:41.290
popular literature.

0:01:41.990,0:01:45.790
We are currently researching the public perception of Polish studies

0:01:46.250,0:01:49.770
and the potential for utilizing

0:01:49.770,0:01:51.070
the various skills

0:01:51.210,0:01:55.770
students acquire in

0:01:55.770,0:01:56.630
Polish studies and

0:01:56.630,0:01:59.010
applying them in the job market.

0:01:59.270,0:02:01.810
Therefore, we would like to talk to you about your

0:02:01.810,0:02:02.710
experiences.

0:02:02.830,0:02:05.530
And so, we will inevitably begin with a question.

0:02:06.170,0:02:07.010
Please tell us

0:02:07.150,0:02:09.350
what your educational path was like?

0:02:09.690,0:02:11.130
Polish studies—

0:02:11.130,0:02:11.970
I don't want to say

0:02:11.970,0:02:12.470
it was by chance—

0:02:12.630,0:02:14.590
were somewhere on my horizon when I

0:02:15.280,0:02:16.240
chose a course of study

0:02:16.240,0:02:18.240
in high school.

0:02:18.280,0:02:18.820
I think

0:02:18.860,0:02:21.700
the motivation behind my studies

0:02:21.700,0:02:24.700
is quite interesting.

0:02:24.760,0:02:26.900
I had,

0:02:26.900,0:02:27.880
frankly,

0:02:27.900,0:02:30.900
not the best Polish teacher in

0:02:30.900,0:02:31.480
high school,

0:02:31.480,0:02:32.400
one of two,

0:02:32.400,0:02:37.090
so I had a sense of mission and a feeling

0:02:37.090,0:02:37.850
that I didn't want

0:02:37.870,0:02:40.970
such Polish teachers in our education system.

0:02:41.070,0:02:41.830
I wanted to—

0:02:41.930,0:02:44.110
this may sound pathetic,

0:02:44.130,0:02:44.630
lofty—

0:02:44.690,0:02:48.050
influence the fate of the education system a bit.

0:02:48.670,0:02:49.330
Especially

0:02:49.350,0:02:53.030
since, while in high school and during

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my studies,

0:02:53.690,0:02:56.470
I was an instructor for the Polish Scouting Association,

0:02:56.490,0:02:58.270
so I was constantly in touch with children,

0:02:58.270,0:02:59.210
young people,

0:02:59.310,0:03:01.270
and adult instructors

0:03:01.270,0:03:05.750
, and the educational aspects

0:03:05.770,0:03:08.930
of influencing people's lives were of great

0:03:08.930,0:03:10.190
interest to me.

0:03:10.620,0:03:13.360
Besides Polish studies, I briefly considered studying

0:03:13.360,0:03:15.880
acting at a theater school,

0:03:15.960,0:03:19.640
but I quickly abandoned that dream

0:03:19.640,0:03:20.700
because I knew

0:03:20.700,0:03:23.420
I wouldn't pass the singing exam,

0:03:23.420,0:03:26.140
as I didn't really

0:03:26.140,0:03:27.900
have much vocal ability and simply didn't have the necessary

0:03:27.900,0:03:28.400
skills.

0:03:28.740,0:03:31.700
Somewhere along the line, Polish studies

0:03:31.700,0:03:34.780
and theater

0:03:34.780,0:03:36.720
came Polish philology.

0:03:37.000,0:03:40.300
After high school, I applied to two

0:03:40.300,0:03:41.940
Polish studies programs in Warsaw –

0:03:41.960,0:03:45.300
the University of Warsaw and Cardinal

0:03:45.300,0:03:46.400
Stefan Wyszyński University.

0:03:46.400,0:03:48.560
I didn't get into the former; I didn't have enough points

0:03:48.560,0:03:50.240
for the University of Warsaw

0:03:50.260,0:03:51.720
,

0:03:51.740,0:03:55.260
because the matriculation exams there were completely different

0:03:55.260,0:03:57.820
than at Cardinal Stefan Wyszyński University.

0:03:57.840,0:04:00.760
But I did get into Cardinal Stefan Wyszyński University, Cardinal Stefan Wyszyński University, thinking

0:04:00.900,0:04:02.420
I might transfer someday.

0:04:02.680,0:04:03.860
Once I was recruited,

0:04:03.860,0:04:05.420
I stayed at the Polish Studies department

0:04:05.440,0:04:06.920
because

0:04:06.960,0:04:10.660
I found it captivating on many levels, and

0:04:10.660,0:04:11.360
the atmosphere

0:04:11.360,0:04:11.960
there

0:04:12.000,0:04:14.760
was truly fantastic, and somehow

0:04:14.760,0:04:18.399
I stayed there long enough

0:04:18.420,0:04:20.380
to collaborate and

0:04:20.380,0:04:22.820
become a teaching staff member.

0:04:22.920,0:04:25.600
Along the way, I was still studying Polish Studies.

0:04:25.600,0:04:28.700
I majored in

0:04:28.700,0:04:31.200
media communications and teaching for my bachelor's degree.

0:04:31.800,0:04:33.040
I briefly considered

0:04:33.040,0:04:36.120
trying to find a job in the media world,

0:04:36.140,0:04:37.740
at least to try for a year

0:04:37.800,0:04:39.100
or two, or perhaps do some internships,

0:04:39.360,0:04:43.310
because teaching

0:04:43.310,0:04:46.110
was, and still is, so devalued on all sides.

0:04:46.350,0:04:46.950
Unfortunately,

0:04:46.950,0:04:48.530
on many levels.

0:04:48.550,0:04:51.710
So I pursued this specialization,

0:04:51.710,0:04:53.630
but the internships quickly confirmed

0:04:53.650,0:04:54.330
that this wasn't the world

0:04:54.430,0:04:55.350
I wanted to be in.

0:04:55.530,0:04:58.070
And in my second degree, I also completed

0:04:58.070,0:04:59.690
a teaching specialization,

0:04:59.810,0:05:02.750
including glottodidactics of Polish studies,

0:05:02.790,0:05:05.530
meaning teaching Polish as a foreign language. That

0:05:05.530,0:05:08.670
was also very interesting for me,

0:05:08.670,0:05:10.590
a developmental path, and

0:05:10.690,0:05:13.530
a way to think about language from a completely different

0:05:13.530,0:05:14.030
perspective.

0:05:14.110,0:05:15.670
Karolina, you mentioned

0:05:15.750,0:05:17.790
that I'm also a coach and

0:05:17.790,0:05:20.710
career counselor, and that's also related to my

0:05:20.710,0:05:21.870
other field of study.

0:05:22.300,0:05:25.000
In my final year of Polish studies, I simultaneously

0:05:25.000,0:05:27.380
began part-time studies at Civitas College,

0:05:27.540,0:05:28.600
pursuing a master's

0:05:28.660,0:05:31.820
degree in sociology with a specialization in coaching and

0:05:31.820,0:05:32.920
social psychology.

0:05:33.020,0:05:38.040
And that's where I honed my skills as a

0:05:38.040,0:05:42.000
professional coach under the auspices of International

0:05:42.000,0:05:44.720
Coach Federation mentors. It was,

0:05:44.760,0:05:47.360
to put it colloquially,

0:05:47.360,0:05:49.540
a huge game changer in my life,

0:05:49.540,0:05:50.620
I must say,

0:05:50.760,0:05:53.780
because thanks to these studies, I started thinking about education and working with others

0:05:53.780,0:05:54.920
in a completely different way

0:05:54.920,0:05:56.200
.

0:05:56.500,0:05:59.440
At the same time, I began working as a

0:05:59.440,0:06:00.220
Polish language teacher,

0:06:00.300,0:06:02.240
but I'll probably talk about that later.

0:06:02.280,0:06:05.380
Regarding my education,

0:06:05.850,0:06:07.170
a few years later,

0:06:07.210,0:06:10.150
in 2021, I graduated from SWPS University, completing

0:06:10.170,0:06:12.690
a postgraduate program in job coaching.

0:06:12.810,0:06:14.210
Yes. And that's where we met.

0:06:14.230,0:06:15.490
Yes, we met there, and

0:06:15.510,0:06:18.070
later we had the opportunity to meet on

0:06:18.070,0:06:20.490
a webinar. It's a small world. That

0:06:20.510,0:06:21.130
's how it works.

0:06:22.310,0:06:23.190
You mentioned that

0:06:23.230,0:06:26.650
in high school you wanted to change the face of

0:06:26.650,0:06:30.510
Polish education, hence your choice of

0:06:30.510,0:06:31.310
Polish studies.

0:06:31.310,0:06:34.860
During your studies, you probably explored all

0:06:34.860,0:06:39.560
the specialization paths associated with Polish studies, and in

0:06:39.560,0:06:43.420
the meantime, you also pursued other things.

0:06:43.480,0:06:47.500
So, during those five years, did you

0:06:47.500,0:06:49.200
ever have any hesitation,

0:06:49.260,0:06:52.540
thinking that perhaps you didn't want to finish your studies

0:06:52.540,0:06:55.620
and wanted to pursue a completely different path

0:06:55.620,0:06:58.160
with your education?

0:06:58.730,0:07:00.830
Regarding Polish Philology,

0:07:00.830,0:07:03.030
I was definitely determined and wanted

0:07:03.030,0:07:05.970
to complete it in the fields

0:07:05.970,0:07:06.810
and specializations

0:07:06.810,0:07:07.910
I had chosen.

0:07:08.110,0:07:12.070
At a certain point, I truly began to miss

0:07:12.070,0:07:15.210
the social aspect of Polish Philology,

0:07:15.270,0:07:17.270
the outside-in aspect

0:07:17.270,0:07:20.770
of what Polish Philology could do with other

0:07:20.770,0:07:21.350
people

0:07:21.390,0:07:25.070
. I had fantastic lecturers in

0:07:25.070,0:07:26.370
all the specializations

0:07:26.620,0:07:28.700
, who also taught

0:07:28.700,0:07:30.140
media subjects and

0:07:30.200,0:07:32.580
teacher glottodidactics

0:07:32.580,0:07:34.000
very well , but I felt

0:07:34.000,0:07:35.860
something was missing inside.

0:07:35.920,0:07:39.180
So, in parallel, I was also considering another

0:07:39.180,0:07:40.220
field of study,

0:07:40.220,0:07:42.580
one that would further develop these social and interpersonal skills

0:07:42.580,0:07:43.620
.

0:07:44.120,0:07:44.600
Although

0:07:44.600,0:07:46.120
this may sound immodest,

0:07:46.120,0:07:46.520
I believe

0:07:46.520,0:07:47.940
that thanks to the Polish Scouting and Guiding Association (ZHP),

0:07:48.060,0:07:49.720
where I was an instructor and completed

0:07:49.720,0:07:50.700
numerous training courses,

0:07:50.720,0:07:52.640
I already had these interpersonal skills at a very

0:07:52.640,0:07:53.560
high level.

0:07:53.600,0:07:56.620
But I wanted more, and that's why I was looking for

0:07:56.620,0:07:57.980
another field of study

0:07:58.020,0:08:00.200
that would be more related to social sciences,

0:08:00.200,0:08:04.200
and here I was also thinking about psychology

0:08:04.200,0:08:05.080
to try,

0:08:05.160,0:08:07.960
although those five years of studying

0:08:07.960,0:08:09.660
scared and discouraged

0:08:09.660,0:08:12.320
me rather than encouraged me to

0:08:12.320,0:08:13.080
study.

0:08:13.400,0:08:16.480
I also considered pedagogy at various universities and

0:08:16.480,0:08:17.800
looked at a wide range of options,

0:08:17.840,0:08:19.180
not just state universities

0:08:19.280,0:08:20.100
but also private ones.

0:08:20.480,0:08:23.340
A very good friend of mine,

0:08:23.360,0:08:26.400
who had already started studying at Collegium

0:08:26.400,0:08:26.720
Civitas,

0:08:26.720,0:08:27.240
said

0:08:27.240,0:08:29.200
it was a great university and that I should check out

0:08:29.200,0:08:29.840
its offerings.

0:08:30.350,0:08:31.170
And I saw

0:08:31.170,0:08:34.010
that it had a specialization in coaching and

0:08:34.010,0:08:35.470
social psychology,

0:08:35.530,0:08:38.049
which turned out to be a perfect fit for me.

0:08:38.130,0:08:42.690
I was rather skeptical about certain aspects of Polish studies,

0:08:42.690,0:08:46.050
specifically literary studies and linguistics,

0:08:46.050,0:08:47.710
although I never felt like

0:08:47.750,0:08:52.350
quitting and not completing my studies.

0:08:52.730,0:08:53.230
Tell me,

0:08:53.250,0:08:55.350
when you were studying Polish studies,

0:08:55.350,0:08:59.570
before you started pursuing other fields

0:08:59.570,0:09:00.370
—

0:09:00.370,0:09:01.970
although you'd always done so,

0:09:01.990,0:09:03.550
but within Polish studies itself—

0:09:03.550,0:09:07.590
did you have a clear vision of your

0:09:07.590,0:09:08.250
professional future,

0:09:08.270,0:09:09.190
a plan,

0:09:09.410,0:09:13.030
or was it more of a testing period?

0:09:14.020,0:09:15.700
It was more of a testing period,

0:09:15.720,0:09:16.520
because I knew

0:09:16.520,0:09:19.260
that by earning my teaching and pedagogical qualifications

0:09:19.260,0:09:20.200
, and

0:09:20.200,0:09:23.120
all those specializations,

0:09:23.200,0:09:26.160
I would give myself time to experiment,

0:09:26.160,0:09:27.100
to see

0:09:27.160,0:09:28.740
where I wanted to work,

0:09:28.780,0:09:31.020
what I wanted to do, and ultimately, that's where

0:09:31.020,0:09:32.340
I ended up in education,

0:09:32.340,0:09:34.960
generally speaking.

0:09:35.760,0:09:38.900
During my studies in coaching and

0:09:38.900,0:09:41.580
social psychology at Collegium Civitas, I even attempted

0:09:41.580,0:09:44.880
to recruit for Human Resources teams,

0:09:45.160,0:09:48.020
more in the context of soft HR—

0:09:48.020,0:09:49.080
that is, at school,

0:09:49.200,0:09:49.940
supporting

0:09:49.940,0:09:52.000
the development of financial and

0:09:52.080,0:09:53.160
legal HR.

0:09:53.220,0:09:56.580
I had several job interviews at

0:09:56.580,0:09:58.240
large companies like HICE,

0:09:58.420,0:10:02.400
but every time I entered those offices for

0:10:02.400,0:10:04.000
a job interview,

0:10:04.600,0:10:06.980
something inside me was crushing.

0:10:07.020,0:10:09.940
I didn't feel the energy at all,

0:10:09.980,0:10:11.280
I didn't feel any excitement,

0:10:11.300,0:10:13.920
I just felt more stifled by the place.

0:10:14.100,0:10:16.880
I associated this educational space

0:10:16.880,0:10:19.340
with a certain freedom,

0:10:20.230,0:10:22.350
with the opportunity to try different things,

0:10:22.370,0:10:24.750
to experiment a bit,

0:10:24.770,0:10:26.590
to test different solutions,

0:10:26.610,0:10:30.550
rather than doing specific things at someone else's

0:10:30.550,0:10:31.430
behest.

0:10:31.630,0:10:33.890
And I'm very happy that

0:10:33.890,0:10:35.330
I tried different things.

0:10:35.530,0:10:37.550
And I'm actually glad

0:10:37.610,0:10:41.090
that, somewhat through exclusion, I found my way into this

0:10:41.090,0:10:44.070
education and stayed there and continued to develop.

0:10:44.250,0:10:46.330
When you walked into those offices,

0:10:46.330,0:10:47.110
for those interviews –

0:10:47.110,0:10:48.370
which you mentioned –

0:10:48.890,0:10:52.690
when those potential employers saw your CV and

0:10:52.690,0:10:53.570
knew

0:10:53.610,0:10:55.290
you were studying Polish studies,

0:10:55.330,0:11:00.110
was that a factor in the conversation about your

0:11:00.110,0:11:01.430
potential employment?

0:11:02.380,0:11:04.620
Paradoxically, during those interviews, no one

0:11:04.620,0:11:06.420
ever asked about Polish studies.

0:11:06.620,0:11:09.780
Rather, they asked me about my competencies,

0:11:09.800,0:11:11.520
how I saw myself,

0:11:11.520,0:11:13.680
what my strengths were,

0:11:13.820,0:11:15.180
what I needed to work on,

0:11:15.280,0:11:18.080
where I saw myself in a few years – somewhat

0:11:18.080,0:11:20.220
standard recruitment questions.

0:11:20.300,0:11:23.740
But no one ever asked me about

0:11:23.780,0:11:24.700
what I was doing here.

0:11:24.920,0:11:27.580
They asked about my motivation, of course, and I myself said

0:11:27.600,0:11:29.300
that I had a degree in Polish studies,

0:11:29.300,0:11:29.860
was studying,

0:11:29.960,0:11:31.180
or had already completed my studies – the coaching studies at the time

0:11:31.760,0:11:34.320
– and I wanted to develop myself, and I saw

0:11:34.320,0:11:35.420
room for combining the two.

0:11:35.580,0:11:37.940
But no one ever asked me specifically about

0:11:37.940,0:11:38.440
that.

0:11:38.760,0:11:41.960
Even during the recruitment process for the language school

0:11:41.980,0:11:43.160
where I worked at the beginning,

0:11:43.220,0:11:44.200
and then for the schools

0:11:44.220,0:11:45.620
where I worked,

0:11:45.620,0:11:46.640
primary schools,

0:11:46.820,0:11:48.300
it was also

0:11:48.460,0:11:50.020
natural

0:11:50.020,0:11:52.260
that I was recruiting for the position of a

0:11:52.260,0:11:52.840
Polish language teacher,

0:11:52.840,0:11:55.100
so I had to complete my Polish studies,

0:11:55.100,0:11:56.960
but no one ever asked me

0:11:57.560,0:11:59.480
what it was like,

0:11:59.520,0:12:01.800
they rather asked a lot about me,

0:12:01.840,0:12:02.740
about what I could do,

0:12:02.760,0:12:03.460
What do I think,

0:12:03.480,0:12:05.000
what is my vision for myself,

0:12:05.240,0:12:07.400
what is my vision for education, for example?

0:12:07.760,0:12:10.640
However, my friend,

0:12:10.640,0:12:11.640
who

0:12:11.700,0:12:14.580
also has a first degree in Polish Philology,

0:12:14.580,0:12:15.360
a bachelor's degree,

0:12:15.440,0:12:18.220
chose a completely different IT industry and works there,

0:12:18.240,0:12:20.180
developing very well, actually.

0:12:20.240,0:12:21.360
And she told me

0:12:21.360,0:12:23.700
that she had several such interviews

0:12:23.720,0:12:24.400
where they asked her,

0:12:24.460,0:12:25.060
"Well, ma'am,

0:12:25.100,0:12:26.740
what are you doing here, Polish studies?"

0:12:26.890,0:12:27.750
And she replies

0:12:27.770,0:12:30.430
that it was more of a developmental thing for her,

0:12:30.570,0:12:34.350
or was she simply persuaded by her

0:12:34.350,0:12:35.990
teacher to study it,

0:12:36.050,0:12:38.410
but it never hindered her,

0:12:38.410,0:12:40.370
or did it decide

0:12:40.450,0:12:42.030
whether to hire someone

0:12:42.030,0:12:42.530
or not.

0:12:42.670,0:12:46.390
So, in my experience, I haven't been

0:12:46.390,0:12:48.830
asked questions about

0:12:49.350,0:12:50.630
Polish Philology, about

0:12:50.630,0:12:51.330
what you do here.

0:12:52.750,0:12:53.230
And so,

0:12:53.230,0:12:53.990
as I understand it,

0:12:53.990,0:12:56.510
you use many of your Polish skills

0:12:56.510,0:12:57.970
,

0:12:57.970,0:12:58.830
maybe all of them.

0:12:59.050,0:13:03.570
So tell me more about the rich variety of

0:13:03.570,0:13:06.630
your current professional activities.

0:13:06.670,0:13:08.770
What do you do in detail?

0:13:08.890,0:13:09.870
First of all,

0:13:09.890,0:13:12.410
I'm currently a full-time

0:13:12.410,0:13:16.490
Polish teacher at

0:13:16.910,0:13:19.090
Samuel Bogumił Linde Primary School in Warsaw.

0:13:19.150,0:13:20.850
It's a private school.

0:13:21.470,0:13:24.710
Generally, I've always been involved in the

0:13:24.710,0:13:25.510
private system.

0:13:25.530,0:13:28.530
I only did internships in public schools, and

0:13:28.530,0:13:29.250
I knew right away

0:13:29.270,0:13:30.410
that it wasn't for me.

0:13:30.470,0:13:32.170
After my internship, I knew

0:13:32.210,0:13:35.310
I didn't want to work in this

0:13:35.310,0:13:37.590
public space for many reasons,

0:13:37.610,0:13:39.370
but it's not even about finances.

0:13:39.450,0:13:42.990
It's about the imposition of certain patterns,

0:13:42.990,0:13:45.710
putting you in a box,

0:13:45.710,0:13:48.290
the lack of opportunities for development, and often immediately

0:13:48.290,0:13:50.810
hitting a wall,

0:13:51.450,0:13:53.650
also with a huge amount of documentation.

0:13:53.650,0:13:56.350
Private schools don't have that much documentation,

0:13:56.670,0:13:59.730
so I think that's what most encouraged me to do it.

0:14:00.150,0:14:01.910
That's what I do most.

0:14:01.930,0:14:04.510
I'm a class teacher at this school and

0:14:04.630,0:14:07.210
also serve as a careers advisor

0:14:07.350,0:14:12.230
because, since the 2017 reform, every school

0:14:12.230,0:14:14.430
is required to have a careers advisor.

0:14:14.510,0:14:18.580
So, I took advantage of the opportunity at one of the schools

0:14:18.580,0:14:22.040
, and the school subsidized my studies

0:14:22.040,0:14:23.580
through careers counseling.

0:14:24.400,0:14:26.960
I'm also the eighth-grade class teacher

0:14:26.960,0:14:29.540
and the head of the humanities and arts team,

0:14:29.600,0:14:32.300
so I also manage and collaborate with the team

0:14:32.360,0:14:33.980
in some way .

0:14:34.120,0:14:35.260
Besides that, here's

0:14:35.340,0:14:36.840
what I do at school:

0:14:36.880,0:14:39.180
I'm also a teaching

0:14:39.220,0:14:42.060
assistant at the Faculty of

0:14:42.060,0:14:44.980
Humanities at Cardinal Stefan Wyszyński University in Warsaw, and—

0:14:45.040,0:14:47.480
as mentioned in the intro—I'm responsible

0:14:47.580,0:14:49.280
for subject teaching.

0:14:49.480,0:14:53.580
I teach classes for future teachers

0:14:53.580,0:14:56.480
and current teachers of Polish at

0:14:56.480,0:14:57.840
the primary school level.

0:14:57.900,0:15:01.440
I also draw on my experience working with

0:15:01.440,0:15:02.680
foreign-language students,

0:15:02.680,0:15:03.980
those with migration experiences,

0:15:03.980,0:15:08.020
and foreigners in general. I also teach

0:15:08.020,0:15:12.260
classes on the basics of working with students

0:15:12.440,0:15:15.480
who weren't raised in Poland or had to move

0:15:15.480,0:15:16.460
abroad.

0:15:17.070,0:15:20.590
On a more literary note, I'm also very

0:15:20.590,0:15:23.150
interested in children's and young adult literature

0:15:23.150,0:15:24.230
, and popular literature;

0:15:24.270,0:15:27.530
I'm also writing my doctoral dissertation on the former.

0:15:27.990,0:15:29.790
Indeed, the activities

0:15:29.790,0:15:34.200
you mentioned are very broad and diverse,

0:15:34.200,0:15:35.020
and it's clear

0:15:35.020,0:15:40.240
they have a profound social aspect, and the

0:15:40.240,0:15:41.000
additional

0:15:41.000,0:15:42.620
skills

0:15:42.720,0:15:45.520
you've acquired beyond Polish studies in the meantime

0:15:45.520,0:15:47.320
certainly help you in some way.

0:15:47.960,0:15:49.080
And does

0:15:49.260,0:15:52.740
what you learned in Polish studies,

0:15:52.780,0:15:54.800
what Polish studies taught you—

0:15:54.820,0:15:57.660
perhaps that's a better way to put it—

0:15:57.760,0:16:02.660
help you in any way in those

0:16:02.660,0:16:06.460
aspects that aren't strictly literary or linguistic, and

0:16:07.040,0:16:10.980
More specifically, in these

0:16:10.980,0:16:11.800
social issues?

0:16:12.000,0:16:15.840
When it comes to this social thinking about

0:16:15.840,0:16:16.580
Polish studies,

0:16:16.580,0:16:19.400
a turning point for me was writing

0:16:19.400,0:16:20.800
my first thesis

0:16:21.130,0:16:25.650
during my bachelor's degree, and it was in cognitive analysis,

0:16:25.670,0:16:28.150
a topic very closely linked to

0:16:28.150,0:16:29.030
psychology,

0:16:29.030,0:16:30.590
social psychology,

0:16:30.590,0:16:31.590
and how

0:16:31.630,0:16:32.870
we think about the world in general.

0:16:33.310,0:16:36.890
This bachelor's thesis and reading texts through the

0:16:36.890,0:16:40.450
lens of literary texts awakened in me

0:16:40.450,0:16:41.430
the desire

0:16:41.490,0:16:42.330
to

0:16:42.350,0:16:45.830
do something more social,

0:16:45.870,0:16:49.030
to develop myself in some way. So, what was happening in Polish studies

0:16:49.660,0:16:50.880
—the research methodologies

0:16:50.960,0:16:52.440
and methods of working with text—

0:16:52.480,0:16:53.580
certainly

0:16:53.600,0:16:57.360
translated into

0:16:57.360,0:16:58.920
an additional impetus

0:16:58.920,0:17:01.600
to develop myself in the social aspect.

0:17:01.700,0:17:03.480
When it comes to Polish studies, and

0:17:03.520,0:17:05.000
to such competencies in general,

0:17:05.040,0:17:09.359
it certainly

0:17:09.359,0:17:12.900
taught me some precision and a certain precision in expressing my thoughts,

0:17:12.900,0:17:14.440
a certain precision in writing.

0:17:15.069,0:17:16.270
However, I'm

0:17:16.290,0:17:19.890
definitely the type of person who prefers speaking and teaching

0:17:19.890,0:17:20.630
to writing,

0:17:20.650,0:17:22.430
so this kind of precision,

0:17:22.430,0:17:23.230
reliability,

0:17:23.230,0:17:24.490
working with sources,

0:17:24.670,0:17:27.710
deciphering diverse meanings,

0:17:27.710,0:17:29.810
searching for various connections,

0:17:29.810,0:17:30.450
correlations,

0:17:30.530,0:17:31.190
relationships,

0:17:31.330,0:17:32.910
associations, and

0:17:33.110,0:17:37.430
such word and literary play have also greatly

0:17:37.430,0:17:40.690
inspired me to pursue social work in general, and

0:17:40.690,0:17:42.850
I often think

0:17:43.480,0:17:44.120
that if it weren't for this,

0:17:44.160,0:17:46.260
I probably wouldn't be able to work so well

0:17:46.260,0:17:47.360
with other people.

0:17:47.400,0:17:48.660
In a sense, working with text—

0:17:48.760,0:17:52.160
this may sound pathetic,

0:17:52.160,0:17:52.940
lofty—

0:17:52.960,0:17:54.180
but it's often said

0:17:54.220,0:17:56.840
that reading literary texts is reading

0:17:56.840,0:17:57.500
a person.

0:17:57.600,0:17:58.980
I, of course, agree.

0:17:59.310,0:18:00.670
Since you also mentioned that

0:18:00.750,0:18:04.870
you're a careers advisor at the school

0:18:04.870,0:18:06.090
where you work,

0:18:06.270,0:18:11.190
when you talk to students about their interests, their

0:18:11.190,0:18:16.530
choices for further education or career,

0:18:16.570,0:18:17.930
do you feel

0:18:18.400,0:18:22.400
that these themes, not just from Polish studies,

0:18:22.400,0:18:25.220
but from the broader humanities in general

0:18:25.220,0:18:26.580
, come up?

0:18:26.580,0:18:30.800
Are students interested in this at all? If

0:18:30.800,0:18:33.880
it even comes up in your

0:18:33.880,0:18:34.560
conversations,

0:18:34.560,0:18:37.000
do you use your skills to

0:18:37.060,0:18:40.110
not only

0:18:40.110,0:18:40.890
promote

0:18:41.090,0:18:44.130
the humanities but also to talk about their general social

0:18:44.130,0:18:44.670
values,

0:18:44.710,0:18:47.690
which generally contribute to

0:18:47.690,0:18:50.750
human development?

0:18:51.110,0:18:52.630
I try to do this,

0:18:52.850,0:18:54.850
but unfortunately it's very difficult.

0:18:54.910,0:18:56.410
It's difficult

0:18:56.410,0:19:00.350
because the thinking is more focused on the exam,

0:19:00.350,0:19:02.190
the external eighth-grade exam.

0:19:02.960,0:19:05.420
And it's more focused on

0:19:05.460,0:19:08.560
getting as many points as possible on that exam

0:19:08.560,0:19:11.480
to get into a good high school.

0:19:11.500,0:19:15.340
And on the one hand, there's not really time for such

0:19:15.340,0:19:17.680
in-depth humanities reflection.

0:19:17.720,0:19:21.220
And unfortunately, it's also a matter of the audience, to some extent,

0:19:21.560,0:19:25.580
because I have very diverse kids who

0:19:25.580,0:19:27.580
are fantastically fulfilled

0:19:27.900,0:19:31.200
in various roles and social realities,

0:19:31.200,0:19:32.840
they're very engaged and

0:19:32.840,0:19:35.360
eager to discuss.

0:19:35.360,0:19:38.500
But unfortunately, it's a bit difficult with this

0:19:38.500,0:19:40.500
general humanities reflection

0:19:40.860,0:19:44.160
because the thinking tends to be very pragmatic about the

0:19:44.160,0:19:44.860
final outcome.

0:19:45.240,0:19:46.780
Few students—

0:19:46.940,0:19:49.420
from my perspective—

0:19:49.460,0:19:51.300
represent,

0:19:51.300,0:19:51.780
so to speak,

0:19:51.780,0:19:53.700
such general humanities interests.

0:19:53.900,0:19:56.820
I have a lot of people who are gifted in languages,

0:19:56.900,0:20:00.380
have very good English, and

0:20:00.380,0:20:02.920
are gifted in science,

0:20:02.920,0:20:05.820
mathematics, and natural sciences – these are

0:20:05.820,0:20:07.220
the majors.

0:20:09.170,0:20:12.590
I try to make it work,

0:20:12.830,0:20:15.250
but it's definitely not the easiest thing.

0:20:15.370,0:20:17.410
I think it's because

0:20:17.490,0:20:21.350
the humanities are generally somewhat removed and

0:20:21.350,0:20:26.470
Unfortunately, it's even ridiculed by the students themselves,

0:20:26.470,0:20:28.790
and often by their parents as well.

0:20:29.160,0:20:29.980
But do you feel

0:20:30.000,0:20:32.180
that despite all this,

0:20:32.280,0:20:33.760
there are some students among them

0:20:33.820,0:20:36.540
who truly enjoy Polish lessons?

0:20:37.500,0:20:39.140
I often hear,

0:20:39.340,0:20:40.960
especially in my homeroom class,

0:20:40.960,0:20:44.560
that they really like me as a teacher and as a person,

0:20:45.020,0:20:46.620
but they don't particularly like my subject.

0:20:47.540,0:20:50.300
So there's a bit of a disconnect there,

0:20:50.360,0:20:50.860
but I think

0:20:50.900,0:20:52.160
it's also a matter of

0:20:52.260,0:20:53.460
what I have to teach,

0:20:53.500,0:20:56.260
what the core curriculum requires me to do, and

0:20:56.260,0:20:57.100
the exams

0:20:57.240,0:20:59.889
I have to,

0:20:59.889,0:21:00.710
or rather

0:21:00.790,0:21:02.530
want to, prepare for.

0:21:02.570,0:21:03.610
Because

0:21:03.670,0:21:05.090
this is a private institution,

0:21:05.230,0:21:09.590
there are certain expectations, and if

0:21:09.590,0:21:10.750
I didn't agree with them,

0:21:10.750,0:21:12.590
I wouldn't work there.

0:21:13.390,0:21:16.730
But I'm trying to find a happy medium.

0:21:17.070,0:21:20.250
Do you also work with adults as a

0:21:20.250,0:21:20.850
career counselor?

0:21:22.370,0:21:23.170
Unfortunately, no,

0:21:23.230,0:21:24.790
I don't have that skill right now.

0:21:24.870,0:21:27.450
It's mainly career counseling classes at

0:21:27.450,0:21:27.950
school.

0:21:28.560,0:21:32.440
However, I try to

0:21:32.440,0:21:36.220
incorporate certain types of content into my students' classes—perhaps not related to

0:21:36.220,0:21:37.460
career counseling,

0:21:37.460,0:21:39.920
but to job coaching,

0:21:39.920,0:21:41.420
coaching in general,

0:21:41.420,0:21:42.420
and a bit to psychology—

0:21:42.460,0:21:45.400
and show them

0:21:45.440,0:21:47.360
coaching

0:21:47.360,0:21:48.060
techniques and tools

0:21:48.220,0:21:50.540
that can be used in class.

0:21:51.000,0:21:51.580
Exactly,

0:21:51.720,0:21:56.420
because you mentioned the virtual ridicule of humanities by

0:21:56.420,0:22:00.600
students and parents, even at the

0:22:00.600,0:22:01.440
elementary school level.

0:22:01.520,0:22:02.540
I think

0:22:02.560,0:22:06.400
this likely influences the social

0:22:06.400,0:22:09.920
perception of humanities programs in general in

0:22:09.920,0:22:11.540
adulthood,

0:22:11.540,0:22:13.860
including in the job market.

0:22:14.320,0:22:14.840
Do you think

0:22:14.840,0:22:16.300
it's a matter of

0:22:16.400,0:22:21.800
how the humanities are generally discussed in school, and that

0:22:21.920,0:22:23.680
they are reduced,

0:22:23.860,0:22:25.020
as you mentioned,

0:22:25.040,0:22:27.840
to a set of skills

0:22:27.940,0:22:31.080
that are tested during the eighth-grade exam,

0:22:31.140,0:22:33.380
and then the final high school exam?

0:22:35.340,0:22:37.600
There's a lack of better marketing,

0:22:37.600,0:22:38.520
better rhetoric,

0:22:38.560,0:22:43.180
that would truly allow

0:22:43.180,0:22:45.600
both young people and

0:22:45.640,0:22:47.180
parents

0:22:47.220,0:22:51.740
to see and understand that these are skills and

0:22:51.740,0:22:52.480
attitudes

0:22:52.480,0:22:56.240
that have a broader impact,

0:22:56.240,0:22:59.440
a broader context, and perhaps don't always translate

0:22:59.440,0:23:01.620
directly to a particular profession.

0:23:01.950,0:23:04.170
However, they do help,

0:23:04.250,0:23:05.570
not only in life

0:23:05.610,0:23:11.150
but also in general, in acquiring knowledge on

0:23:11.150,0:23:12.430
a career path.

0:23:12.570,0:23:14.310
I try to show

0:23:14.330,0:23:17.590
that Polish studies and the humanities in general,

0:23:17.650,0:23:21.290
as a whole set of different disciplines,

0:23:21.310,0:23:25.350
are a set of competencies, and also competencies

0:23:25.350,0:23:25.990
for the future,

0:23:26.110,0:23:28.510
related to critical thinking,

0:23:28.530,0:23:30.270
verifying knowledge

0:23:32.010,0:23:32.810
, creativity

0:23:32.810,0:23:33.610
, and innovation

0:23:33.610,0:23:37.230
. Reading poetry, for example, and

0:23:37.230,0:23:38.250
finding meaning

0:23:38.250,0:23:42.630
requires a truly significant amount of creativity,

0:23:42.650,0:23:44.550
as well as knowledge of some kind,

0:23:44.570,0:23:46.950
of course the meaning of words,

0:23:46.990,0:23:49.170
but also the ability to argue and

0:23:49.310,0:23:50.210
imagine.

0:23:50.390,0:23:51.890
This is something

0:23:51.910,0:23:55.470
that is often forgotten,

0:23:55.470,0:23:59.939
and it's often reduced

0:23:59.939,0:24:01.920
to Polish philology,

0:24:01.940,0:24:03.020
that someone

0:24:03.020,0:24:04.200
who goes to Polish philology

0:24:04.200,0:24:06.020
will only be a teacher.

0:24:06.660,0:24:09.000
And that's often demeaning.

0:24:09.320,0:24:11.560
I've heard this a few times in my life

0:24:11.560,0:24:12.060
and said,

0:24:12.120,0:24:12.820
"Yeah,

0:24:12.880,0:24:14.040
but I want to be a teacher."

0:24:14.060,0:24:15.920
I see this career path in myself, and for me,

0:24:15.920,0:24:17.180
it's nothing to be ashamed of.

0:24:17.480,0:24:20.060
But getting back to the question,

0:24:20.060,0:24:22.460
unfortunately, this humanities scholar is still

0:24:22.460,0:24:24.160
perceived as someone

0:24:24.160,0:24:26.110
who just sits and

0:24:26.110,0:24:29.410
reads in some solitude, and isn't quite able

0:24:29.410,0:24:31.790
to translate

0:24:31.870,0:24:32.610
what they read or what

0:24:33.110,0:24:34.930
they know into everyday life.

0:24:35.230,0:24:37.130
But in reality, it's a

0:24:37.130,0:24:40.290
personality issue, and one could stereotype them in the same way.

0:24:40.290,0:24:42.550
Look at many IT specialists and

0:24:42.570,0:24:43.390
programmers,

0:24:43.390,0:24:44.350
who are often thought of

0:24:44.370,0:24:44.950
as people

0:24:45.010,0:24:47.810
who just sit in front of a computer and type code,

0:24:47.850,0:24:48.670
so to speak.

0:24:48.710,0:24:51.130
In reality, many of them are also

0:24:51.130,0:24:53.010
managers and need highly developed

0:24:53.010,0:24:54.410
social skills.

0:24:54.780,0:24:58.440
But above all, the issue of earnings weighs heavily.

0:24:58.620,0:25:00.180
There's a perception

0:25:00.180,0:25:03.980
that humanities or humanities degrees don't earn much, and that

0:25:03.980,0:25:06.460
's probably the hardest thing to overcome.

0:25:06.460,0:25:10.220
When I talk to children during

0:25:10.220,0:25:11.240
career counseling sessions,

0:25:11.340,0:25:14.380
when I ask them basic questions about

0:25:14.380,0:25:16.360
what they want to become in the future,

0:25:16.380,0:25:18.420
they don't have a specific profession in mind

0:25:18.420,0:25:19.960
because they don't know yet.

0:25:20.510,0:25:22.790
The answers are very short,

0:25:22.790,0:25:24.510
saying they want to earn a lot

0:25:24.510,0:25:25.470
but not break the bank.

0:25:25.730,0:25:27.350
Unfortunately, humanities,

0:25:27.350,0:25:29.990
or the humanities-based way of thinking, requires

0:25:29.990,0:25:31.130
intellectual work,

0:25:31.230,0:25:32.570
which—

0:25:32.650,0:25:35.630
unfortunately, for various reasons—young people,

0:25:35.710,0:25:37.270
especially students,

0:25:37.270,0:25:39.010
aren't accustomed to.

0:25:39.290,0:25:40.090
Do you think

0:25:40.090,0:25:45.410
these financial issues are some kind of stereotype,

0:25:45.410,0:25:45.830
meaning

0:25:45.830,0:25:49.310
you can earn more as a humanities major,

0:25:49.310,0:25:50.590
specifically a Polish major?

0:25:50.670,0:25:51.170
I think

0:25:51.190,0:25:53.010
it also depends on

0:25:53.070,0:25:54.810
what you do,

0:25:54.870,0:25:55.630
because I think

0:25:55.670,0:25:57.910
it has to resonate strongly.

0:25:57.950,0:26:00.130
After studying Polish, you don't just have to be a teacher.

0:26:00.410,0:26:03.730
Of course, it's a specific path, and

0:26:03.730,0:26:06.210
it's often promoted and showcased.

0:26:06.750,0:26:08.830
It's important

0:26:08.950,0:26:10.530
that we have teachers,

0:26:10.530,0:26:12.390
especially considering what's happening in education right now.

0:26:14.690,0:26:18.930
But being a Polish studies major also offers a wide range of opportunities.

0:26:18.930,0:26:22.010
It's also—you could say—working in the media,

0:26:22.010,0:26:23.090
or with the media,

0:26:23.130,0:26:24.330
in advertising ,

0:26:24.330,0:26:25.310
PR, among other things,

0:26:25.410,0:26:27.870
where these skills are very useful.

0:26:28.560,0:26:31.000
And here, too, you can develop.

0:26:31.020,0:26:32.740
You can also earn a lot.

0:26:32.820,0:26:33.700
In a systemic, public school

0:26:33.900,0:26:36.040
,

0:26:36.040,0:26:39.780
it's rather difficult to earn a lot of money,

0:26:40.260,0:26:41.820
although you also have to define

0:26:41.880,0:26:42.880
what "a lot of money" means,

0:26:42.940,0:26:44.720
because it means something completely different for everyone.

0:26:44.960,0:26:46.720
Because the teacher's card,

0:26:46.760,0:26:49.640
the so-called "base table,"

0:26:49.640,0:26:52.840
severely limits and imposes specific salaries,

0:26:52.900,0:26:55.840
whereas in private schools, for example,

0:26:55.840,0:26:59.620
there are free-market salaries,

0:26:59.740,0:27:02.980
which are also often negotiable.

0:27:03.100,0:27:06.020
But there are also many opportunities,

0:27:06.020,0:27:07.620
such as self-employment,

0:27:07.820,0:27:09.720
starting your own business,

0:27:09.720,0:27:11.620
collaborating with various entities, and

0:27:11.640,0:27:13.300
working in the cultural sector,

0:27:13.300,0:27:16.140
which often involves securing various

0:27:16.140,0:27:18.720
grants and subsidies.

0:27:18.960,0:27:19.340
I think

0:27:19.340,0:27:20.320
the most important thing here is

0:27:20.340,0:27:23.060
to think outside the box and

0:27:23.060,0:27:24.060
realize

0:27:24.060,0:27:26.780
that money can also be tied to the humanities,

0:27:27.160,0:27:27.800
you just have to know

0:27:27.820,0:27:29.080
where to look.

0:27:29.420,0:27:32.820
Of course, this may seem a bit stereotypical – after computer science,

0:27:32.820,0:27:35.940
after programming, it's probably still much easier

0:27:35.940,0:27:36.840
to get a job

0:27:36.840,0:27:38.340
where you earn a lot,

0:27:38.400,0:27:39.660
but the question is

0:27:39.780,0:27:41.440
what constitutes a high salary.

0:27:41.540,0:27:44.940
But in certain situations,

0:27:44.940,0:27:47.100
even if someone earns a computer science degree

0:27:47.140,0:27:49.640
doesn't demonstrate other competencies,

0:27:49.640,0:27:51.100
such as teamwork,

0:27:51.180,0:27:52.340
even minimal ones,

0:27:52.400,0:27:53.160
then I think

0:27:53.180,0:27:55.820
they'll unfortunately miss out on that good salary,

0:27:55.820,0:27:56.820
that good money.

0:27:56.920,0:27:57.520
Sure.

0:27:57.540,0:27:58.140
You mentioned that

0:27:58.200,0:28:00.760
you work at a university and

0:28:00.860,0:28:03.840
have contact with students.

0:28:04.250,0:28:08.330
From your perspective, what is the perception of

0:28:08.330,0:28:09.090
the studies themselves,

0:28:09.090,0:28:12.270
of this path chosen by students?

0:28:12.290,0:28:15.370
Is it their first choice?

0:28:15.370,0:28:18.290
Do they actually find these studies

0:28:18.290,0:28:20.050
attractive in some way?

0:28:20.170,0:28:23.630
And do you think they really have a plan for

0:28:23.630,0:28:26.010
themselves and know

0:28:26.010,0:28:29.450
what to expect from these studies and what they can and

0:28:29.450,0:28:30.430
should learn?

0:28:30.720,0:28:33.600
So that they can actually find their place in the job market?

0:28:33.600,0:28:34.380
Find it?

0:28:34.540,0:28:35.480
I'll simply say that

0:28:35.520,0:28:39.060
I have a somewhat distorted view of Polish studies.

0:28:39.100,0:28:42.360
For the past four years, I've been teaching classes

0:28:42.360,0:28:43.980
in the teaching specialization.

0:28:44.020,0:28:45.200
These are people

0:28:45.240,0:28:47.920
who, for some reason, chose this

0:28:47.920,0:28:49.060
career path,

0:28:49.060,0:28:49.620
thinking

0:28:49.620,0:28:53.600
they wanted to be teachers, or perhaps

0:28:53.600,0:28:54.580
it was a somewhat negative choice—

0:28:54.680,0:28:56.320
they didn't want to pursue a specialization,

0:28:56.320,0:28:57.240
or a module,

0:28:57.240,0:28:58.160
as I call it here,

0:28:58.240,0:28:59.660
editorial or media.

0:29:00.229,0:29:01.030
So they decided

0:29:01.030,0:29:01.570
that neither

0:29:01.610,0:29:03.590
of those things appealed to them,

0:29:03.590,0:29:06.350
so they pursued a teaching specialization

0:29:06.370,0:29:07.490
to gain qualifications,

0:29:07.530,0:29:08.770
which doesn't surprise me,

0:29:08.770,0:29:10.310
because it's a specific profession.

0:29:10.730,0:29:12.250
I think

0:29:12.390,0:29:15.850
there's a significant market demand for these

0:29:15.850,0:29:16.610
teachers,

0:29:16.630,0:29:17.650
but many of the people

0:29:17.690,0:29:19.230
I've met

0:29:19.310,0:29:21.830
have often already studied something,

0:29:22.010,0:29:23.830
dropped out, and switched to

0:29:23.830,0:29:27.850
Polish studies, for example, or are completing

0:29:27.850,0:29:28.350
their qualifications,

0:29:28.350,0:29:31.550
obtaining qualifications to teach Polish, and

0:29:31.550,0:29:34.530
are also developing

0:29:34.530,0:29:35.470
their Polish studies in some way

0:29:35.490,0:29:36.830
because they simply enjoy reading,

0:29:36.910,0:29:39.430
meaning they're interested in literature or language.

0:29:39.950,0:29:41.970
And actually, this year, I'll have

0:29:41.970,0:29:42.850
the opportunity

0:29:42.850,0:29:45.610
to teach a full first-year course

0:29:45.610,0:29:47.830
on "Polish Studies in New Media" for the first time.

0:29:48.850,0:29:51.510
I plan to further utilize my

0:29:51.510,0:29:54.070
job coaching skills

0:29:54.070,0:29:55.490
to discuss

0:29:55.490,0:29:58.350
what you can do after graduating with a Polish studies degree, and not

0:29:58.350,0:29:59.430
just the stereotypical

0:29:59.430,0:30:00.310
work in an editorial office or

0:30:00.330,0:30:01.270
teaching,

0:30:01.370,0:30:03.590
but how this translates

0:30:04.200,0:30:07.540
into the job market and where you can look for a career.

0:30:07.640,0:30:11.360
Yes, that's a very interesting idea for future work with

0:30:11.360,0:30:12.680
students.

0:30:13.020,0:30:13.860
Tell me,

0:30:14.000,0:30:16.440
how do you feel about these studies now?

0:30:16.540,0:30:18.140
Not about your own,

0:30:18.160,0:30:18.900
but

0:30:19.040,0:30:21.100
about the ones

0:30:21.160,0:30:22.820
you currently teach.

0:30:23.290,0:30:26.570
What, from your perspective, are resources for the

0:30:26.570,0:30:27.070
job market,

0:30:27.170,0:30:28.170
in these fields,

0:30:28.210,0:30:29.390
in these skills,

0:30:29.430,0:30:32.670
and what are some weaknesses or needs

0:30:32.670,0:30:34.250
improvement?

0:30:34.730,0:30:35.470
Let me start this way.

0:30:35.530,0:30:38.390
I think it's a bit easier for me to talk about these

0:30:38.390,0:30:41.310
weaknesses, and I think that

0:30:41.310,0:30:43.750
unfortunately, it's a human factor

0:30:44.440,0:30:47.280
that exists in many departments and

0:30:47.280,0:30:48.840
universities in general.

0:30:48.840,0:30:51.140
I'm not just talking about Polish studies.

0:30:51.200,0:30:52.900
A bit of—

0:30:52.960,0:30:53.720
well, I don't want to say

0:30:53.720,0:30:54.280
closure,

0:30:54.320,0:30:56.220
but rather a lingering thought

0:30:56.260,0:30:57.960
that Polish philology,

0:30:57.960,0:30:58.940
or Polish studies in general,

0:30:58.940,0:31:02.180
literary studies, is a field

0:31:02.180,0:31:04.900
that guards culture,

0:31:04.960,0:31:09.520
that is supposed to somehow halt certain changes, and

0:31:09.520,0:31:10.980
that is solely meant to foster

0:31:11.650,0:31:13.850
national identity. On the one hand, yes,

0:31:13.930,0:31:15.210
it's certainly important

0:31:15.610,0:31:18.390
that Polish studies help us maintain

0:31:18.430,0:31:21.150
who we are in terms of identity as Poles,

0:31:21.270,0:31:23.030
as readers in general,

0:31:23.190,0:31:26.530
and literature is also an image of reality.

0:31:26.710,0:31:27.190
I think

0:31:27.190,0:31:29.490
I could talk a lot about this from

0:31:29.490,0:31:31.030
a methodological perspective,

0:31:31.090,0:31:32.830
but I think

0:31:32.870,0:31:34.310
there's more of a mindset

0:31:34.310,0:31:38.630
that we, as Polish scholars, are the guardians

0:31:38.630,0:31:42.190
of history, and there's not quite the courage

0:31:42.550,0:31:46.890
to change this perception of Polish studies as something

0:31:47.210,0:31:48.350
that can be useful.

0:31:48.830,0:31:51.710
There's also perhaps a lack of fully considering competences,

0:31:51.770,0:31:53.290
that what we learn in Polish studies,

0:31:53.330,0:31:53.910
what we learn,

0:31:53.930,0:31:55.630
or how we learn, can translate into the

0:31:55.630,0:31:59.750
job market. It's mainly thought about from a

0:31:59.750,0:32:01.370
historical-literary perspective,

0:32:01.370,0:32:02.690
more on the level of knowledge:

0:32:02.710,0:32:04.250
what literary theories do I know,

0:32:04.730,0:32:08.050
what are the interpretations of specific literary works

0:32:08.050,0:32:09.390
from particular periods,

0:32:09.430,0:32:11.310
what are the theories of language, etc.

0:32:11.910,0:32:13.650
And I also think

0:32:13.690,0:32:16.290
that there is no translation from such

0:32:16.290,0:32:19.810
compulsory subjects into thinking about the future.

0:32:19.910,0:32:21.910
So, the area to work on is a certain

0:32:21.910,0:32:22.570
The brake

0:32:22.590,0:32:24.950
that still lies in the fact

0:32:25.010,0:32:28.670
that Polish studies is precisely the guardian of our

0:32:28.670,0:32:29.630
identity.

0:32:30.160,0:32:33.200
As for the positive aspects,

0:32:33.360,0:32:37.320
it's the ability to read a wide variety

0:32:37.320,0:32:38.020
of texts,

0:32:38.020,0:32:41.400
but also to practice interpretation and

0:32:41.400,0:32:43.520
connect various facts.

0:32:43.580,0:32:46.180
Often, when I write various theses

0:32:46.180,0:32:47.040
and articles,

0:32:47.040,0:32:50.800
I think of it as a puzzle,

0:32:50.880,0:32:53.980
where all the different pieces—

0:32:53.980,0:32:54.560
which exist—

0:32:55.130,0:32:56.790
must be connected and

0:32:56.830,0:32:58.190
connected in some way ,

0:32:58.200,0:32:58.650
even though

0:32:58.650,0:33:01.430
they are often far apart.

0:33:01.650,0:33:02.370
So I think

0:33:02.430,0:33:03.850
it's a positive aspect,

0:33:03.850,0:33:06.810
to be able to use this very diverse,

0:33:06.810,0:33:09.010
broad knowledge of the humanities,

0:33:09.010,0:33:12.790
to be able to read texts and translate them

0:33:12.790,0:33:13.370
into language,

0:33:13.370,0:33:15.630
and to be able to write about it,

0:33:15.630,0:33:16.730
or even talk about it.

0:33:16.750,0:33:18.630
This is also quite important.

0:33:19.000,0:33:23.380
Yes, Polish studies are not easy due to

0:33:23.380,0:33:24.840
the amount of material

0:33:24.840,0:33:26.740
you have to read and

0:33:26.740,0:33:27.600
absorb.

0:33:27.660,0:33:28.440
I remember

0:33:28.440,0:33:33.800
that this three-plus-two division of studies also

0:33:33.800,0:33:37.760
sparked a debate in the Polish studies community about

0:33:38.180,0:33:42.340
whether it was possible to say everything

0:33:42.480,0:33:45.380
that needed to be said about literary history in such a short

0:33:45.440,0:33:47.280
time, which is constantly growing.

0:33:47.280,0:33:50.180
Furthermore, we also have this strong

0:33:50.180,0:33:54.920
linguistics component, and these two components need to be somehow

0:33:54.920,0:33:56.200
combined.

0:33:56.220,0:34:01.220
So that the final Polish studies graduate is both

0:34:01.220,0:34:02.440
a literary historian

0:34:02.440,0:34:03.500
and the kind of person

0:34:03.500,0:34:04.440
you mentioned

0:34:04.480,0:34:05.060
—someone

0:34:05.060,0:34:06.420
who connects the dots,

0:34:06.440,0:34:07.500
connects the dots,

0:34:07.520,0:34:10.520
has strong analytical skills,

0:34:10.540,0:34:13.280
and at the same time is someone

0:34:13.300,0:34:16.159
who is probably

0:34:16.179,0:34:19.580
associated with Polish studies in the mainstream

0:34:19.580,0:34:20.159
media

0:34:20.699,0:34:24.040
—a specialist in speaking and

0:34:24.040,0:34:25.699
writing.

0:34:25.840,0:34:26.719
Do you think

0:34:26.800,0:34:28.600
that, given

0:34:28.679,0:34:31.580
today's job market,

0:34:31.860,0:34:32.780
how it's changing,

0:34:32.860,0:34:34.100
and all the trends

0:34:34.179,0:34:36.080
we've already discussed today,

0:34:36.219,0:34:40.900
can this somehow be reconciled within

0:34:40.900,0:34:43.500
the Polish studies curriculum?

0:34:44.120,0:34:48.199
Is it possible to preserve the ethos of Polish studies

0:34:48.199,0:34:50.460
as an academic discipline,

0:34:50.460,0:34:51.940
a philological discipline,

0:34:51.940,0:34:55.080
while simultaneously incorporating it into the curriculum,

0:34:55.239,0:34:58.680
or perhaps reshaping the curriculum in a way

0:34:58.740,0:35:00.240
that will

0:35:00.240,0:35:04.420
simply make these studies attractive and

0:35:04.420,0:35:07.920
perceived differently by both potential students

0:35:07.920,0:35:10.360
and, above all, employers?

0:35:10.760,0:35:14.360
This is certainly required of us, Polish studies scholars,

0:35:14.360,0:35:15.440
humanities scholars,

0:35:15.440,0:35:16.340
literary scholars,

0:35:16.380,0:35:17.180
linguistics scholars,

0:35:17.180,0:35:18.400
and even cultural studies scholars,

0:35:18.400,0:35:19.560
among other fields.

0:35:19.600,0:35:22.980
A certain courage is required to abandon this

0:35:22.980,0:35:24.800
aspect of the past,

0:35:25.040,0:35:25.920
that is, the

0:35:25.960,0:35:26.500
past,

0:35:26.540,0:35:28.300
for this future aspect.

0:35:28.440,0:35:29.260
And the question

0:35:29.280,0:35:30.860
you asked me here, Piotr,

0:35:30.920,0:35:34.080
is one we at the faculty face precisely in

0:35:34.080,0:35:36.260
the context of changing the curriculum,

0:35:36.600,0:35:37.680
namely how to do this in a way

0:35:37.820,0:35:40.700
that primarily encourages students to pursue a second

0:35:40.700,0:35:41.300
cycle,

0:35:41.300,0:35:42.740
that is, a master's degree.

0:35:42.740,0:35:45.620
This is also a rather interesting phenomenon,

0:35:45.620,0:35:48.100
not just related to Polish studies.

0:35:48.120,0:35:49.120
In general,

0:35:49.320,0:35:53.200
many people in Poland complete

0:35:53.200,0:35:57.060
full-time first-cycle studies and then start working.

0:35:57.080,0:35:57.440
The sooner,

0:35:57.440,0:35:59.860
because in the job market, experience and

0:36:00.120,0:36:01.240
competencies

0:36:01.300,0:36:02.320
also count,

0:36:02.400,0:36:06.360
and second-cycle studies often supplement

0:36:06.360,0:36:07.180
knowledge

0:36:07.180,0:36:09.780
or even achieve that master's degree.

0:36:09.860,0:36:13.860
This change would certainly require abandoning this

0:36:13.860,0:36:14.580
aspect of

0:36:14.580,0:36:15.260
what already existed

0:36:15.360,0:36:20.520
, perhaps shortening, for example, perhaps a little to some

0:36:20.520,0:36:21.060
extent—

0:36:21.060,0:36:22.520
I don't want to say how—

0:36:22.720,0:36:24.140
the history of literature and

0:36:24.140,0:36:25.260
literary theory,

0:36:25.280,0:36:28.380
which is also very close to my heart.

0:36:29.020,0:36:30.500
Showing

0:36:30.580,0:36:35.300
that literature and language also have

0:36:35.300,0:36:37.860
a truly profound impact on

0:36:37.960,0:36:39.100
what's happening around us.

0:36:39.220,0:36:41.280
At the University of Warsaw,

0:36:41.280,0:36:43.840
I was recently reviewing their curriculum,

0:36:44.020,0:36:46.760
they created a specialization in

0:36:46.760,0:36:47.560
plain language in their second-cycle studies.

0:36:47.780,0:36:49.260
That's a fantastic

0:36:49.260,0:36:51.500
idea,

0:36:51.520,0:36:52.280
especially

0:36:52.280,0:36:54.820
since it's often difficult to understand various types of official

0:36:54.820,0:36:56.140
documents.

0:36:56.460,0:37:00.540
A major area for development is certainly

0:37:00.540,0:37:01.040
work – 0:37:01.240, 0:37:02.240 I think

0:37:02.300,0:37:03.000
it had to be done –

0:37:03.020,0:37:04.100
with artificial intelligence,

0:37:04.140,0:37:06.180
which isn't really intelligence,

0:37:06.180,0:37:08.320
but rather some kind of closed or constantly

0:37:08.320,0:37:11.400
expanding database. The ability to work with

0:37:11.400,0:37:14.180
it, the competence of creative writing,

0:37:14.180,0:37:15.260
creating texts,

0:37:15.260,0:37:16.280
not just formulaic ones,

0:37:16.300,0:37:20.240
but ones that attract attention in some way.

0:37:20.820,0:37:24.020
This requires deeper reflection,

0:37:24.510,0:37:26.110
but also an understanding

0:37:26.110,0:37:30.430
that if we truly reject this theoretical

0:37:30.430,0:37:31.130
, literary

0:37:31.130,0:37:32.270
, historical,

0:37:32.270,0:37:34.190
or historical aspect,

0:37:34.370,0:37:38.330
we won't lose our identity

0:37:38.330,0:37:39.170
as Polish scholars

0:37:39.170,0:37:40.010
. In fact, I think

0:37:40.050,0:37:43.110
we'll redefine it and present ourselves from

0:37:43.110,0:37:44.150
a completely different perspective.

0:37:44.230,0:37:48.090
Because Polish scholars are still plagued by the stereotype of someone

0:37:48.710,0:37:49.990
who sits down and

0:37:50.030,0:37:53.130
reads, and nothing more comes of it.

0:37:53.190,0:37:56.710
And thanks to these studies, we truly have a much

0:37:56.710,0:38:00.410
broader perspective and can connect these various

0:38:00.410,0:38:02.650
facts, piece together the puzzle,

0:38:02.650,0:38:03.750
connect the dots.

0:38:03.750,0:38:06.050
We build skills in creativity and

0:38:06.050,0:38:09.370
innovation, and thanks to them, we can take it

0:38:09.370,0:38:09.990
into the job market.

0:38:10.670,0:38:14.590
Of course, we may have all the knowledge about

0:38:14.590,0:38:15.430
literary history,

0:38:15.430,0:38:16.090
Romanticism, and

0:38:16.110,0:38:17.510
have the dates memorized—

0:38:17.530,0:38:18.130
so to speak—

0:38:18.130,0:38:19.430
in our heads,

0:38:19.430,0:38:20.710
what was published when,

0:38:20.790,0:38:24.030
but in the job market, no one will actually

0:38:24.030,0:38:25.610
verify this in any way.

0:38:25.990,0:38:27.630
This is also a question

0:38:28.300,0:38:30.780
for the individual

0:38:30.840,0:38:32.820
managers of Polish studies departments:

0:38:32.880,0:38:34.280
what they want to achieve,

0:38:34.360,0:38:36.520
what kind of students we want,

0:38:36.680,0:38:39.680
but we also need to remember

0:38:39.680,0:38:42.220
the voice of young students or those

0:38:42.280,0:38:44.020
entering university,

0:38:44.140,0:38:46.080
what we want to give them for the future?

0:38:46.240,0:38:48.100
That is, a perspective on

0:38:48.220,0:38:51.360
what we will need in the job market in five years

0:38:51.360,0:38:51.860
?

0:38:51.980,0:38:52.660
You mentioned

0:38:52.720,0:38:53.560
that the employers

0:38:53.580,0:38:55.160
you dealt with

0:38:55.200,0:38:58.610
didn't usually ask you about your studies.

0:38:58.630,0:38:59.610
I understand

0:38:59.610,0:39:02.770
that you largely surround yourself with people

0:39:02.790,0:39:06.070
who understand what Polish studies is and

0:39:06.070,0:39:07.170
have a feel for the field.

0:39:07.920,0:39:08.500
Especially those

0:39:08.600,0:39:11.400
who have also completed it themselves or

0:39:11.400,0:39:12.280
teach it.

0:39:12.360,0:39:15.820
But is it really

0:39:15.840,0:39:16.960
(as you believe)

0:39:16.960,0:39:18.820
that studies are crucial

0:39:18.960,0:39:20.620
for employers , or is it just

0:39:20.660,0:39:23.420
that that era has passed,

0:39:23.960,0:39:25.760
meaning

0:39:25.760,0:39:26.660
that the field itself

0:39:26.700,0:39:29.420
is discussed less and less when looking for a job, and less and

0:39:29.420,0:39:32.480
less often during job interviews.

0:39:32.780,0:39:35.960
In education, the issue of studies is undeniable

0:39:35.960,0:39:36.460
.

0:39:36.480,0:39:38.000
This is dictated by law.

0:39:38.000,0:39:39.460
You need to have a degree,

0:39:39.480,0:39:42.040
you need to have completed pedagogical training.

0:39:42.540,0:39:45.340
No one in any public,

0:39:45.340,0:39:46.060
private,

0:39:46.060,0:39:48.900
or systemic school with the same credentials as state schools

0:39:48.900,0:39:52.400
will ever question the issue of studies.

0:39:52.460,0:39:53.760
They simply must be there,

0:39:53.900,0:39:55.800
because that's how the law is constructed.

0:39:55.880,0:39:58.840
And there's no way

0:39:58.840,0:39:59.460
around it.

0:39:59.660,0:40:02.420
However, in other industries, I think

0:40:02.540,0:40:05.360
—and from what I've talked to—

0:40:05.400,0:40:08.540
the issue of studies is not very important.

0:40:08.640,0:40:10.260
Skills are important,

0:40:10.500,0:40:11.850
competencies are important,

0:40:11.850,0:40:13.990
who is the most important,

0:40:14.050,0:40:18.450
and whether someone graduated, for example, with a degree in sociology and a

0:40:18.450,0:40:19.910
media specialization,

0:40:20.030,0:40:23.270
or a degree in pedagogy with a media specialization?

0:40:23.750,0:40:26.530
Or another field of study with a similar profile,

0:40:26.530,0:40:29.150
it's not really important.

0:40:29.390,0:40:32.170
In the private sector,

0:40:32.170,0:40:34.010
diplomas aren't as important

0:40:34.090,0:40:37.510
because there's an immediate assumption

0:40:37.510,0:40:41.940
that a diploma isn't

0:40:41.940,0:40:43.080
a basis for

0:40:43.080,0:40:44.100
hiring someone

0:40:44.160,0:40:45.920
or even starting a conversation.

0:40:45.920,0:40:47.860
However

0:40:47.900,0:40:53.540
, what that person has done professionally in the interim is still important, as are

0:40:53.540,0:40:54.860
the certificates,

0:40:54.860,0:40:55.580
diplomas, and

0:40:55.640,0:40:58.360
training they've completed.

0:40:58.360,0:41:02.780
Employers also don't seem to trust

0:41:02.780,0:41:04.020
universities,

0:41:04.020,0:41:07.300
polytechnics, and other higher education institutions much in terms of

0:41:07.300,0:41:10.240
preparing young people for careers.

0:41:10.420,0:41:13.120
And if you were to think about those students and

0:41:13.120,0:41:13.960
graduates

0:41:13.960,0:41:17.120
who are currently studying or will soon be

0:41:17.120,0:41:18.120
,

0:41:18.220,0:41:19.660
in this context—

0:41:19.680,0:41:21.400
which you just mentioned—

0:41:21.480,0:41:22.880
what advice would you give them

0:41:22.880,0:41:24.420
while they're still studying?

0:41:24.540,0:41:25.280
What should they do

0:41:25.400,0:41:26.880
to enter the job market

0:41:28.030,0:41:29.390
more prepared,

0:41:29.390,0:41:33.530
able to sell these skills to potential

0:41:33.530,0:41:34.330
employers?

0:41:34.490,0:41:38.130
They should definitely take advantage of the opportunities

0:41:38.130,0:41:41.370
the university offers them in the context of development,

0:41:41.370,0:41:43.550
not just within their field of study.

0:41:43.630,0:41:46.810
So, for example, at my university, UKSW, there's a

0:41:46.810,0:41:48.370
Career Counseling Center,

0:41:49.020,0:41:50.320
if I remember correctly.

0:41:50.320,0:41:53.520
In any case, it runs a series of workshops,

0:41:53.520,0:41:54.280
webinars, and

0:41:54.280,0:41:56.560
training sessions on the future job market,

0:41:56.800,0:41:58.180
job interviews,

0:41:58.180,0:41:58.840
CV writing,

0:41:59.160,0:42:02.040
and also future skills. I think

0:42:02.120,0:42:03.120
it's very important

0:42:03.140,0:42:05.700
to take advantage of these opportunities outside of

0:42:05.700,0:42:06.260
your studies.

0:42:06.600,0:42:11.460
It's also important to start working,

0:42:11.600,0:42:15.440
but it doesn't necessarily have to be financially rewarding.

0:42:15.770,0:42:17.690
It could be an internship, for example,

0:42:17.690,0:42:19.030
or volunteering.

0:42:19.210,0:42:23.630
I personally owe a lot to the Polish Scouting and Guiding Association (ZHP),

0:42:23.970,0:42:26.530
where I was an instructor for many years,

0:42:26.530,0:42:30.350
and at some point, I reached

0:42:30.350,0:42:33.630
the senior level, conducting training sessions,

0:42:33.630,0:42:34.990
educator courses,

0:42:35.010,0:42:37.670
and coaching courses. In this organization,

0:42:37.710,0:42:39.450
in this association, I developed significantly and

0:42:39.450,0:42:41.530
acquired new skills

0:42:41.570,0:42:43.150
that Polish studies wouldn't have given me.

0:42:43.400,0:42:44.660
It's important

0:42:44.680,0:42:46.780
not to limit myself to this major,

0:42:46.800,0:42:49.520
to maximize its potential,

0:42:49.540,0:42:50.780
but I also think

0:42:50.900,0:42:54.680
it's appropriate to ask questions,

0:42:54.680,0:42:57.000
to question

0:42:57.100,0:42:58.660
whether what I'm learning

0:42:58.680,0:43:00.360
or being taught

0:43:00.480,0:43:03.000
will actually be useful in life.

0:43:03.200,0:43:04.440
And I think

0:43:04.460,0:43:05.080
it's also important

0:43:05.100,0:43:07.700
for students here to ask questions

0:43:07.700,0:43:09.620
and have the courage to ask, "

0:43:09.660,0:43:10.480
Why am I in this?"

0:43:11.080,0:43:12.780
What purpose will this serve me?

0:43:12.820,0:43:15.120
Of course, apart from the identity aspect,

0:43:15.160,0:43:17.000
because it's undeniable

0:43:17.060,0:43:19.780
that a Polish studies major knows the history of literature,

0:43:19.780,0:43:21.800
but no one

0:43:21.960,0:43:23.460
knows the entire story.

0:43:23.520,0:43:26.560
After all, every literary scholar and

0:43:26.560,0:43:28.980
linguist is immersed in their own niche anyway.

0:43:28.980,0:43:30.980
Some are more into Romantic literature,

0:43:30.980,0:43:32.160
others more into positivism,

0:43:32.220,0:43:33.740
others into Old Polish literature.

0:43:33.780,0:43:35.940
And it seems to me that students

0:43:35.980,0:43:40.620
are somewhat required to achieve such comprehensive knowledge across

0:43:40.620,0:43:41.440
all disciplines,

0:43:41.460,0:43:43.460
which is also simply physically impossible.

0:43:43.520,0:43:44.240
What

0:43:44.260,0:43:44.760
Piotr said

0:43:44.800,0:43:46.060
is that these are demanding studies,

0:43:46.060,0:43:48.500
above all, time-consuming, and it's impossible

0:43:48.500,0:43:49.580
to read everything.

0:43:49.900,0:43:51.880
Do you have any ideas,

0:43:51.900,0:43:53.640
any advice

0:43:53.700,0:43:58.500
that the founders of Polish studies

0:43:58.500,0:43:59.400
,

0:43:59.400,0:44:02.840
those responsible at individual universities for

0:44:02.840,0:44:04.200
creating programs

0:44:04.200,0:44:06.140
and also for communicating about these programs, should heed?

0:44:06.730,0:44:08.070
Advice

0:44:08.090,0:44:09.390
on

0:44:09.470,0:44:12.410
how to communicate all this,

0:44:12.550,0:44:15.870
both to potential interested parties

0:44:15.870,0:44:17.010
and to employers?

0:44:17.170,0:44:19.130
Is that all

0:44:19.170,0:44:20.570
you said:

0:44:20.690,0:44:21.810
Creative thinking—

0:44:21.830,0:44:23.490
which has come up a few times here—

0:44:23.630,0:44:25.410
analytical skills,

0:44:25.650,0:44:27.270
all social issues.

0:44:27.290,0:44:30.950
In your opinion,

0:44:30.950,0:44:34.190
is this aspect of Polish studies truly clear

0:44:34.210,0:44:36.050
from the descriptions of Polish studies

0:44:36.510,0:44:40.770
found on websites or in information brochures

0:44:40.770,0:44:41.850
?

0:44:41.890,0:44:46.250
Or perhaps we should change the language

0:44:46.250,0:44:49.430
we use to describe Polish studies altogether?

0:44:49.510,0:44:52.090
I'm reviewing the curricula of various Polish studies programs in

0:44:52.090,0:44:52.590
Poland—

0:44:52.630,0:44:53.550
also because

0:44:53.570,0:44:54.910
I'm on the Academic Council

0:44:56.160,0:44:57.160
at my department—

0:44:57.160,0:44:59.480
and the language is already changing significantly.

0:44:59.560,0:45:03.000
There's already a certain shift in thinking about

0:45:03.000,0:45:03.860
Polish studies,

0:45:03.940,0:45:06.580
where it's not just a general field of study

0:45:06.580,0:45:08.240
intended to introduce students to history,

0:45:08.240,0:45:09.460
literary theory,

0:45:09.460,0:45:11.240
or language,

0:45:12.060,0:45:14.460
but it's also crucial to translate this

0:45:14.460,0:45:16.280
Polish studies into competencies,

0:45:16.300,0:45:16.800
responsibilities,

0:45:16.860,0:45:17.360
and a profession.

0:45:17.380,0:45:20.360
Specializations are emerging,

0:45:20.360,0:45:21.680
or field names

0:45:21.680,0:45:23.560
are being tacked onto Polish philology,

0:45:23.560,0:45:25.380
such as literary criticism,

0:45:25.380,0:45:26.640
creative writing, and

0:45:27.020,0:45:28.500
digital humanities.

0:45:28.500,0:45:30.920
We're moving forward as

0:45:30.920,0:45:32.260
Polish studies scholars in general;

0:45:32.260,0:45:33.880
we see the potential in the tools

0:45:33.880,0:45:35.600
we have. It's happening,

0:45:35.600,0:45:39.990
but unfortunately,

0:45:39.990,0:45:42.050
the media is still giving us a hard time; that stereotype is

0:45:42.050,0:45:42.890
still present.

0:45:42.890,0:45:45.250
We're only here

0:45:45.330,0:45:47.710
to talk about

0:45:47.830,0:45:50.310
Mickiewicz being a great poet,

0:45:50.610,0:45:53.670
Słowacki as well, and other individuals.

0:45:54.360,0:45:57.380
It's a bit difficult to break through the

0:45:57.380,0:45:59.100
image of a Polish studies major

0:45:59.220,0:46:01.120
that's been ingrained in recent years.

0:46:01.400,0:46:04.400
It's certainly important to maintain a balance here,

0:46:04.400,0:46:09.240
to avoid being too modern and too

0:46:09.240,0:46:09.740
forward-thinking,

0:46:09.780,0:46:13.420
because if we completely change our identity,

0:46:13.460,0:46:16.280
we might be perceived as inauthentic.

0:46:16.460,0:46:19.880
Try and have the courage to change.

0:46:19.900,0:46:22.260
That's probably the most important thing:

0:46:23.100,0:46:25.680
to not give up in any way.

0:46:25.780,0:46:27.860
I'll ask a provocative question,

0:46:27.880,0:46:31.540
because during our conversation

0:46:31.540,0:46:32.640
, we're talking about

0:46:32.660,0:46:34.240
Polish studies. Polish

0:46:34.240,0:46:36.780
philology has come up in a few places,

0:46:36.780,0:46:41.840
and you just mentioned a number

0:46:41.840,0:46:42.700
of fields

0:46:42.700,0:46:43.200
that—

0:46:43.260,0:46:44.120
as you said—

0:46:44.160,0:46:46.960
are being lumped in with Polish studies.

0:46:47.740,0:46:48.700
It's like this:

0:46:48.740,0:46:51.460
when it comes to university teaching,

0:46:51.460,0:46:54.100
Polish studies are becoming less and less

0:46:54.100,0:46:56.460
associated with Polish philology.

0:46:56.960,0:46:59.020
New fields are emerging

0:46:59.020,0:47:02.380
with very marketable,

0:47:02.420,0:47:03.760
modern names,

0:47:03.760,0:47:04.560
fields

0:47:04.580,0:47:07.680
that we associate very strongly with

0:47:07.680,0:47:09.540
applied Polish studies,

0:47:09.540,0:47:10.440
which,

0:47:10.780,0:47:12.000
as you mentioned,

0:47:12.000,0:47:16.560
probably allows Polish studies to survive as

0:47:16.560,0:47:19.020
a teaching discipline.

0:47:19.120,0:47:21.360
Aren't you concerned

0:47:21.460,0:47:25.620
that this field will lead to a

0:47:25.620,0:47:30.180
loss of identity for Polish studies on the one hand, and

0:47:30.180,0:47:33.260
on the other, deepen the crisis

0:47:33.260,0:47:34.200
in the humanities,

0:47:34.280,0:47:38.960
which has been so much discussed recently?

0:47:39.420,0:47:44.160
Won't this, to some extent, contribute to the fact

0:47:44.160,0:47:49.040
that in a few or several decades, we'll forget

0:47:49.040,0:47:51.020
about Polish studies altogether,

0:47:51.080,0:47:56.060
and will only utilize certain aspects of

0:47:56.060,0:47:59.180
Polish studies, philological studies, in

0:47:59.180,0:48:04.300
very applied fields that

0:48:04.300,0:48:06.520
fit perfectly into this market?

0:48:06.780,0:48:08.520
On the one hand, it seems to me

0:48:08.560,0:48:10.340
that applied Polish studies,

0:48:10.460,0:48:12.920
this aspect, is incredibly important.

0:48:13.340,0:48:15.940
In the sense that we should truly demonstrate the usefulness

0:48:15.960,0:48:17.660
of what we learn in our studies

0:48:17.680,0:48:19.340
for the future.

0:48:19.380,0:48:21.620
Because, of course, there are many people

0:48:21.680,0:48:23.200
who study out of passion,

0:48:23.200,0:48:25.680
or simply want to develop themselves,

0:48:25.760,0:48:27.720
but there are also many people who study

0:48:27.760,0:48:29.140
to have a profession.

0:48:29.200,0:48:29.700
And I think

0:48:29.720,0:48:31.020
that these aspects –

0:48:31.020,0:48:32.620
which you mentioned here –

0:48:32.680,0:48:34.180
They are also incredibly important,

0:48:34.180,0:48:37.260
because they also provide some direction for specialization.

0:48:37.360,0:48:40.400
Even if there were a classical Polish philology,

0:48:40.420,0:48:43.540
meaning without all the digital networking,

0:48:43.540,0:48:44.780
laboratories, and so on

0:48:44.800,0:48:45.660
that we have now

0:48:46.220,0:48:46.920
(and it's a good thing

0:48:46.940,0:48:47.440
they do),

0:48:47.540,0:48:51.540
we still have internal divisions within philology,

0:48:51.540,0:48:52.420
within Polish studies,

0:48:52.420,0:48:54.540
because we have divisions between literary scholars and

0:48:54.540,0:48:57.760
linguists, and someone always goes one way or another.

0:48:58.350,0:49:00.510
Some are more into literature,

0:49:00.510,0:49:01.810
others more into language.

0:49:01.910,0:49:04.050
So this aspect of application, I think,

0:49:04.230,0:49:06.970
exploits the human,

0:49:06.970,0:49:09.410
or rather the market, need for some kind of

0:49:09.410,0:49:10.650
specialization,

0:49:10.670,0:49:12.090
a specialization,

0:49:12.090,0:49:16.070
to actually pursue a specific profession.

0:49:16.070,0:49:19.290
But at the same time, despite these specializations—

0:49:19.290,0:49:19.970
which are

0:49:20.650,0:49:24.770
variously named and used

0:49:24.770,0:49:26.270
in degree programs

0:49:26.270,0:49:28.230
and marketing efforts—

0:49:28.330,0:49:29.190
I feel

0:49:29.190,0:49:30.610
that Polish philology,

0:49:30.610,0:49:33.910
and Polish studies in general, doesn't lose anything,

0:49:34.030,0:49:37.130
because there's always a connection to these

0:49:37.130,0:49:38.690
philological foundations,

0:49:38.750,0:49:40.210
a connection to the fact

0:49:40.270,0:49:42.570
that we start from a reflection on language,

0:49:42.570,0:49:43.850
or reflection on literature,

0:49:43.870,0:49:46.450
that is, simultaneously, a reflection on humanity.

0:49:46.510,0:49:49.710
And here we're building new identities,

0:49:50.330,0:49:52.070
or variations of that identity,

0:49:52.110,0:49:54.570
but still not breaking away from its roots.

0:49:54.970,0:49:55.650
Exactly,

0:49:55.710,0:49:58.110
and perhaps the key is

0:49:58.170,0:50:00.330
what you're talking about a lot today:

0:50:00.370,0:50:01.850
identifying skills using the language of

0:50:01.930,0:50:06.450
the job market.

0:50:06.450,0:50:07.190
That

0:50:07.390,0:50:07.930
is,

0:50:08.030,0:50:10.950
what—just as you can describe Polish studies—

0:50:11.050,0:50:14.290
includes aspects

0:50:14.310,0:50:18.270
that are specifically Polish-centric and those

0:50:18.390,0:50:20.920
relevant to the job market.

0:50:20.920,0:50:21.520
Those

0:50:21.520,0:50:25.700
that employers are looking for or can understand,

0:50:25.780,0:50:28.920
so perhaps this isn't just about

0:50:28.920,0:50:32.140
Polish studies students.

0:50:32.220,0:50:37.160
Students need more support in identifying

0:50:37.160,0:50:38.480
these skills,

0:50:38.480,0:50:40.080
naming them in a way

0:50:40.320,0:50:42.440
that employers will understand.

0:50:42.920,0:50:43.740
I think

0:50:43.760,0:50:45.580
we also need to learn how to talk about them,

0:50:45.680,0:50:47.360
because

0:50:47.360,0:50:49.560
if there's a student,

0:50:49.620,0:50:51.240
someone studying,

0:50:51.240,0:50:56.320
even the best teaching specialization in

0:50:56.320,0:50:56.820
Poland,

0:50:56.920,0:51:01.660
or any other program, and they finish the block of classes

0:51:02.310,0:51:03.930
that qualify them to be a teacher,

0:51:03.930,0:51:05.170
to work online, etc.,

0:51:05.310,0:51:07.330
if we don't make them aware of

0:51:07.330,0:51:09.450
what they've learned during those classes,

0:51:09.450,0:51:13.170
they won't go to the interview with just a paper,

0:51:13.230,0:51:16.690
because the paper is the starting point for the conversation.

0:51:16.730,0:51:19.510
And if we don't make young and

0:51:19.510,0:51:20.410
old people aware

0:51:20.530,0:51:21.390
(because let's be honest,

0:51:21.430,0:51:23.750
studying is open to people of all

0:51:23.750,0:51:24.250
ages),

0:51:24.360,0:51:25.460
if we don't show them

0:51:25.460,0:51:29.240
what you actually get out of your studies and

0:51:29.240,0:51:31.360
sometimes show them in such a straightforward way,

0:51:31.380,0:51:34.200
then someone might not have that reflection

0:51:34.200,0:51:35.360
and won't know

0:51:35.360,0:51:36.380
what they've learned

0:51:36.460,0:51:37.520
because they think

0:51:37.560,0:51:38.620
their diploma is enough.

0:51:39.100,0:51:41.640
No, in every field on the job market,

0:51:42.330,0:51:43.850
these interviews are always taking place,

0:51:43.850,0:51:45.410
which is a kind of verification of

0:51:45.410,0:51:46.530
what someone can do,

0:51:46.530,0:51:48.050
how they can present it,

0:51:48.070,0:51:50.090
how they can sell themselves,

0:51:50.090,0:51:51.490
whether they're suitable for the job.

0:51:51.570,0:51:54.550
And then we have to be able to talk about it.

0:51:54.970,0:51:57.330
It's obviously difficult to summarize in general,

0:51:57.350,0:52:00.890
but

0:52:00.890,0:52:05.510
are there any self-presentation exercises in Polish studies or those related to Polish studies

0:52:07.210,0:52:08.090
?

0:52:08.130,0:52:11.170
That is, is there any

0:52:11.170,0:52:15.210
training in self-presentation situations associated with these studies

0:52:15.210,0:52:16.370
?

0:52:16.670,0:52:18.350
There is a lot,

0:52:18.630,0:52:21.670
and often is, a subject on self-presentation and

0:52:21.670,0:52:26.550
public speaking techniques in

0:52:26.550,0:52:27.190
media and

0:52:27.230,0:52:28.110
journalism specializations

0:52:28.150,0:52:30.190
integrated with Polish philology.

0:52:30.190,0:52:34.310
Polish studies, just talking about myself.

0:52:34.370,0:52:38.220
But I don't really think

0:52:38.380,0:52:42.020
there's any skill in selling

0:52:42.020,0:52:44.820
Polish studies to the job market,

0:52:44.920,0:52:45.620
or how

0:52:45.660,0:52:49.280
what I'm learning during these three- and two-year

0:52:49.280,0:52:50.840
studies,

0:52:50.840,0:52:52.440
or even just five years,

0:52:52.640,0:52:56.540
translates into my competences.

0:52:57.280,0:52:58.200
So, to some extent,

0:52:58.320,0:52:59.540
I mean, I think

0:52:59.580,0:53:00.320
it's very important

0:53:00.320,0:53:02.860
to be able to talk about it, and this should

0:53:02.860,0:53:03.360
happen

0:53:03.630,0:53:04.850
already in the first year,

0:53:04.890,0:53:08.210
to be able to demonstrate it.

0:53:08.210,0:53:13.270
During these studies, of course, we build our national identity

0:53:13.270,0:53:13.850
,

0:53:14.050,0:53:15.330
read literature, and

0:53:15.330,0:53:16.130
become familiar with it,

0:53:16.290,0:53:19.430
but thanks to this, you have a whole range of other

0:53:19.430,0:53:20.690
skills and competencies

0:53:20.730,0:53:21.910
with which you can go out into the world.

0:53:24.270,0:53:26.670
Perhaps you simply need to demonstrate them,

0:53:26.670,0:53:27.550
list them,

0:53:27.550,0:53:29.290
although this also happens on the other hand,

0:53:29.350,0:53:31.390
because we have the Bologna system,

0:53:31.510,0:53:34.210
there are these so-called learning outcomes,

0:53:34.250,0:53:35.830
they list these symbols,

0:53:35.950,0:53:38.790
what a student can do after a given course.

0:53:38.790,0:53:40.830
But I also know

0:53:40.830,0:53:43.410
that many people don't bother looking at them.

0:53:45.170,0:53:46.030
But I think

0:53:46.050,0:53:49.200
that also talking about the benefits of a given subject and

0:53:49.200,0:53:50.580
delving a bit deeper, showing

0:53:51.140,0:53:53.040
that there are appropriate documents

0:53:53.040,0:53:54.420
that every university,

0:53:54.420,0:53:56.280
every program, must have prepared,

0:53:56.440,0:54:01.240
will provide a kind of tool for talking about Polish studies

0:54:01.240,0:54:02.200
in the job market.

0:54:02.560,0:54:03.060
For someone

0:54:03.080,0:54:04.620
who isn't a Polish studies major,

0:54:04.640,0:54:05.280
like me,

0:54:05.420,0:54:07.920
it's a very interesting, new world.

0:54:08.160,0:54:12.980
A new world of different subjects and activities

0:54:12.980,0:54:14.820
that are undertaken during these studies.

0:54:15.160,0:54:17.140
But now I've been thinking about this competency-based

0:54:18.090,0:54:18.750
thinking

0:54:18.750,0:54:19.410
.

0:54:19.490,0:54:20.430
What you said,

0:54:20.450,0:54:22.390
that it's still somewhat lacking,

0:54:22.510,0:54:23.790
makes it seem to me

0:54:23.830,0:54:26.070
that the job market here is a bit ahead

0:54:26.070,0:54:29.810
of universities in general,

0:54:30.010,0:54:34.110
even though all universities describe

0:54:34.110,0:54:36.550
their fields of study in terms of skills,

0:54:36.590,0:54:40.170
competencies, and learning outcomes,

0:54:40.610,0:54:44.490
but it's not a natural way to talk about

0:54:44.490,0:54:44.990
it.

0:54:45.610,0:54:48.770
I'm also here, speaking of these competencies...

0:54:48.810,0:54:50.930
After all, with the current changes

0:54:50.930,0:54:54.910
taking place in education and the

0:54:54.930,0:54:55.810
ongoing work,

0:54:55.910,0:54:57.670
we're talking about a graduate's profile,

0:54:57.710,0:55:00.130
meaning precisely a competency-based profile

0:55:00.150,0:55:03.670
(not just that a student should be able to emerge from every

0:55:03.670,0:55:06.210
educational stage, and what they can possibly do),

0:55:06.350,0:55:10.290
but how schools should realistically shape

0:55:10.290,0:55:12.430
these competencies. I think

0:55:12.470,0:55:16.430
that somewhere in our education system—both

0:55:16.430,0:55:19.610
higher and lower,

0:55:19.630,0:55:20.390
so to speak—

0:55:20.490,0:55:22.230
that is, in schools,

0:55:22.270,0:55:26.090
there's still a lack of this translation into thinking with these

0:55:26.090,0:55:26.950
skills.

0:55:27.130,0:55:27.610
I think

0:55:27.610,0:55:30.130
all of this is truly very important, and

0:55:30.130,0:55:31.750
I'm thinking now about

0:55:31.790,0:55:35.050
Professor Grażyna Borkowska's excellent article

0:55:35.050,0:55:38.050
some time ago about agency,

0:55:38.150,0:55:40.310
about the agency of Polish studies,

0:55:40.470,0:55:41.890
or Polish studies in general.

0:55:41.930,0:55:42.550
In it, she wrote that

0:55:42.940,0:55:48.660
Polish studies teachers need to return to their roles

0:55:48.660,0:55:49.360
as

0:55:49.440,0:55:51.180
voices,

0:55:51.420,0:55:53.360
voices on important issues, and

0:55:53.380,0:55:55.140
voices in discussions.

0:55:55.160,0:55:58.380
And undoubtedly, education, school education, and

0:55:58.380,0:56:01.800
university education are such an important

0:56:01.800,0:56:02.460
social issue,

0:56:02.520,0:56:05.040
not just human,

0:56:05.140,0:56:05.720
social,

0:56:05.720,0:56:08.780
economic, and national. I think

0:56:08.900,0:56:10.760
it's very important

0:56:10.840,0:56:15.280
to talk about these issues, for

0:56:15.280,0:56:18.580
Polish studies teachers to talk about these issues,

0:56:18.640,0:56:20.400
also in the context of the so-called

0:56:20.640,0:56:21.700
job market,

0:56:21.900,0:56:25.480
where perhaps the humanities are not

0:56:25.480,0:56:27.920
particularly popular at the moment,

0:56:27.960,0:56:30.680
and from our conversation it appears

0:56:30.680,0:56:35.000
that there is still a lot of room for work

0:56:35.000,0:56:39.100
and change, for talking about these issues differently.

0:56:39.400,0:56:42.480
Thank you very much for today's conversation.

0:56:42.520,0:56:47.660
Thank you very much for listening to the conversation with

0:56:47.660,0:56:51.800
Mr. Marcin, and we invite you to our next

0:56:51.800,0:56:52.820
podcasts.

0:57:05.560,0:57:08.260
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0:57:08.260,0:57:11.320
the Science

0:57:11.320,0:57:12.380
for Society II program of the Minister of Education and Science.

0:57:12.480,0:57:14.420
The project number is provided in the description.

0:57:15.300,0:57:18.300
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0:57:25.340,0:57:26.860
See you there!